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	<title>Comments on: You Want Feedback &#8211; Not &#8220;Constructive Criticism&#8221;.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://tully.ca/blog/2007/08/10/you-want-feedback-not-constructive-criticism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://tully.ca/blog/2007/08/10/you-want-feedback-not-constructive-criticism/</link>
	<description>Challenging that which you thought to be true.</description>
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		<title>By: Bryan C. Fleming &#187; Personal Growth Carnival #49</title>
		<link>http://tully.ca/blog/2007/08/10/you-want-feedback-not-constructive-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-386</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan C. Fleming &#187; Personal Growth Carnival #49</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tully.ca/blog/?p=225#comment-386</guid>
		<description>[...] Tully presents You Want Feedback - Not “Constructive Criticism”. posted at William Tully, saying, &#8220;Criticism: a serious examination and judgment of something. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tully presents You Want Feedback &#8211; Not “Constructive Criticism”. posted at William Tully, saying, &#8220;Criticism: a serious examination and judgment of something. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://tully.ca/blog/2007/08/10/you-want-feedback-not-constructive-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-385</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 04:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tully.ca/blog/?p=225#comment-385</guid>
		<description>Oh, I just love the photo :))))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I just love the photo <img src='http://tully.ca/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> )))</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://tully.ca/blog/2007/08/10/you-want-feedback-not-constructive-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-384</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 02:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tully.ca/blog/?p=225#comment-384</guid>
		<description>Sure, why not? I believe that when we actually commit to providing feedback, we are in essence taking the process as we believe it to be, and evaluating it in comparison to what we perceive the result to be. (Brad, hope you&#039;re reading this - I&#039;m having a thought)

When we feel moved enough about the process, we then  begin to explore it for our own gain. I do believe that we have a genuine interest in a greater outcome so if we are able to contribute, it is to both our personal gain, and the overall gain.

Like I was talking with Brad about, what I wrote about as it compares to blogs is a bit of a grey area... I wrote on &#039;the bigger picture&#039; and purposely avoided getting specific on blogs, simply because, well, I dunno..

&quot;brain out for a spin&quot; - where were you when I was trying to come up with a new tag-line for the blog?! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, why not? I believe that when we actually commit to providing feedback, we are in essence taking the process as we believe it to be, and evaluating it in comparison to what we perceive the result to be. (Brad, hope you&#8217;re reading this &#8211; I&#8217;m having a thought)</p>
<p>When we feel moved enough about the process, we then  begin to explore it for our own gain. I do believe that we have a genuine interest in a greater outcome so if we are able to contribute, it is to both our personal gain, and the overall gain.</p>
<p>Like I was talking with Brad about, what I wrote about as it compares to blogs is a bit of a grey area&#8230; I wrote on &#8216;the bigger picture&#8217; and purposely avoided getting specific on blogs, simply because, well, I dunno..</p>
<p>&#8220;brain out for a spin&#8221; &#8211; where were you when I was trying to come up with a new tag-line for the blog?! <img src='http://tully.ca/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Liz Strauss</title>
		<link>http://tully.ca/blog/2007/08/10/you-want-feedback-not-constructive-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-383</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz Strauss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 00:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tully.ca/blog/?p=225#comment-383</guid>
		<description>I wonder if feedback for some isn&#039;t just self-gratification . . . not judgment, not criticism, just a chance to take my own brain out for a spin? Would that be feedforward then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if feedback for some isn&#8217;t just self-gratification . . . not judgment, not criticism, just a chance to take my own brain out for a spin? Would that be feedforward then?</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://tully.ca/blog/2007/08/10/you-want-feedback-not-constructive-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-379</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tully.ca/blog/?p=225#comment-379</guid>
		<description>&quot;Criticism is seldom requested&quot; - exactly, we would rather not have judgments levied.

Brad, your feedback is always welcomed. Your comments actually let me challenge the process through which I drew my conclusions. The great thing about feedback as opposed to judgments is that it removes the emotional side of it, allows open dialog of differing opinions, and ultimately,  I (we) have the final say as to what impact the feedback has on the process. Sure, there was an original emotional response, however, I believe that what we have been doing is looking at specifics in the process itself and have been testing and evaluating to see how the result changes.

I have taken quite a bit from what you have said and have used it to further refine my process on this topic.

It&#039;s a bit of a selfish act that I welcome differing opinions, simply because it allows me to re-look at the process compared to the desired result. For me, I tend to take them on and challenge the heck out of them which sometimes scares people a bit, but it is purely out of curiosity and my attempt to better understand my side and your/their side. :)

Draft horses, eh? I grew up with horses - not quite the big beasties that you have though. They weren&#039;t my &#039;thing&#039; but I have put in my time at various horse shows, eventing competitions, and pleasure driving meets/shows. My dad currently has a massive Canadian Sport Horse which he would love to get back into driving with. At +16h he is a bit big for most vehicles though. I&#039;ve seen the raw power of draft horses at a small pull competition a couple years ago - one of the most impressive things I&#039;ve ever seen!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Criticism is seldom requested&#8221; &#8211; exactly, we would rather not have judgments levied.</p>
<p>Brad, your feedback is always welcomed. Your comments actually let me challenge the process through which I drew my conclusions. The great thing about feedback as opposed to judgments is that it removes the emotional side of it, allows open dialog of differing opinions, and ultimately,  I (we) have the final say as to what impact the feedback has on the process. Sure, there was an original emotional response, however, I believe that what we have been doing is looking at specifics in the process itself and have been testing and evaluating to see how the result changes.</p>
<p>I have taken quite a bit from what you have said and have used it to further refine my process on this topic.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a bit of a selfish act that I welcome differing opinions, simply because it allows me to re-look at the process compared to the desired result. For me, I tend to take them on and challenge the heck out of them which sometimes scares people a bit, but it is purely out of curiosity and my attempt to better understand my side and your/their side. <img src='http://tully.ca/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Draft horses, eh? I grew up with horses &#8211; not quite the big beasties that you have though. They weren&#8217;t my &#8216;thing&#8217; but I have put in my time at various horse shows, eventing competitions, and pleasure driving meets/shows. My dad currently has a massive Canadian Sport Horse which he would love to get back into driving with. At +16h he is a bit big for most vehicles though. I&#8217;ve seen the raw power of draft horses at a small pull competition a couple years ago &#8211; one of the most impressive things I&#8217;ve ever seen!</p>
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		<title>By: Brad K.</title>
		<link>http://tully.ca/blog/2007/08/10/you-want-feedback-not-constructive-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-380</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 16:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tully.ca/blog/?p=225#comment-380</guid>
		<description>I think feedback, as a topic, includes criticism.  Also slander, praise, reviews, and other expressions of judgment.  All are potential expressions of technical or emotional reaction from a reader for an author&#039;s work.

A review should be a relatively balanced appraisal of the strengths and weaknesses of an object or article for a particular purpose.  Usually a review is specifically requested by an author, an agent, or another interested party.

Criticism is seldom requested, and usually considered negative, focusing on faults.  Sometimes the criticism is intended to identify faults for improvement, other times to modify the value of the object of criticism.

My DraftResource.com web site is an &#039;interest&#039; site, intended to help new draft horse owners find information about draft horses, the draft horse industry, books, harness, etc.  One of features popular today is the chat board.  I found several years ago that the rule &#039;talk about horses, not the owners&#039; stopped a lot of petty bickering and name calling (most of us *did* grow up around a barn!).  That is, stay technical, fix problems.  Avoid emotional things.

What your article calls &#039;feedback&#039;, I would call &#039;supportive comments&#039;.  When someone has an emotional reaction that disagrees with your conclusions, like this one(!) .. I don&#039;t know.  I am not criticizing, since I don&#039;t think you are wrong.  I am not judging you, I don&#039;t think you did wrong, there is no reason to correct you or anyone.  But you inspired a desire to express my perspective, which differs from your article, and reflects an examination of my own understanding of the topic.

Thanks for an interesting experience!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think feedback, as a topic, includes criticism.  Also slander, praise, reviews, and other expressions of judgment.  All are potential expressions of technical or emotional reaction from a reader for an author&#8217;s work.</p>
<p>A review should be a relatively balanced appraisal of the strengths and weaknesses of an object or article for a particular purpose.  Usually a review is specifically requested by an author, an agent, or another interested party.</p>
<p>Criticism is seldom requested, and usually considered negative, focusing on faults.  Sometimes the criticism is intended to identify faults for improvement, other times to modify the value of the object of criticism.</p>
<p>My DraftResource.com web site is an &#8216;interest&#8217; site, intended to help new draft horse owners find information about draft horses, the draft horse industry, books, harness, etc.  One of features popular today is the chat board.  I found several years ago that the rule &#8216;talk about horses, not the owners&#8217; stopped a lot of petty bickering and name calling (most of us *did* grow up around a barn!).  That is, stay technical, fix problems.  Avoid emotional things.</p>
<p>What your article calls &#8216;feedback&#8217;, I would call &#8216;supportive comments&#8217;.  When someone has an emotional reaction that disagrees with your conclusions, like this one(!) .. I don&#8217;t know.  I am not criticizing, since I don&#8217;t think you are wrong.  I am not judging you, I don&#8217;t think you did wrong, there is no reason to correct you or anyone.  But you inspired a desire to express my perspective, which differs from your article, and reflects an examination of my own understanding of the topic.</p>
<p>Thanks for an interesting experience!</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://tully.ca/blog/2007/08/10/you-want-feedback-not-constructive-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-381</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tully.ca/blog/?p=225#comment-381</guid>
		<description>&quot;Things that make you go hmmmmm!&quot; ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Things that make you go hmmmmm!&#8221; <img src='http://tully.ca/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Colleen</title>
		<link>http://tully.ca/blog/2007/08/10/you-want-feedback-not-constructive-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-382</link>
		<dc:creator>Colleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 14:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tully.ca/blog/?p=225#comment-382</guid>
		<description>LOVE the pic. That&#039;s what people start to look like in my brain when they&#039;re blah blah blah-ing about what I&#039;m doing wrong. Or maybe that&#039;s what I look like when I walk away. Hmmmm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOVE the pic. That&#8217;s what people start to look like in my brain when they&#8217;re blah blah blah-ing about what I&#8217;m doing wrong. Or maybe that&#8217;s what I look like when I walk away. Hmmmm.</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://tully.ca/blog/2007/08/10/you-want-feedback-not-constructive-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-378</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 02:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tully.ca/blog/?p=225#comment-378</guid>
		<description>I see your point and was wondering if anyone would bring this up. I purposely didn&#039;t cover blogging in particular which I will admit is a bit of a grey area...

Blogs as written works will always receive critiques which are in fact judgments. When you look at literature there is always a critique that follows. Blogs are indeed subject to this judgment and simply have to accept it.

The comment boxes when you think about it allow for both, feedback AND judgments. I believe that when we publish a post we are (on some level) looking for feedback on the process which we have worked through to develop the post. As a written/published work, it is also subject to judgment.

Let&#039;s not kid ourselves - we all judge. I think it comes down to the response that we leave in the comment boxes on blogs - are we in fact expressing our judgment, or are we providing feedback as it relates to the desired result of the post?

Again, with blogs, the desired result of the post may not always be known, yet is also subject to judgment which, also, adds another level of complexity to the whole thing..

Posting a comment is up to the reader, and as authors of blogs, we just have to accept the fact that we will receive both.

I simply take the view that if someone is moved to submit a judgment about a post, the blog, or me, I have the right to challenge that judgment with process. ie. Have you looked at the process and result to provide feedback to better the process/result, or have you made a judgment on something early and closed the door? ;)

I hear what you are saying - I&#039;m just not sure if I&#039;m making sense... Great feedback tho!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your point and was wondering if anyone would bring this up. I purposely didn&#8217;t cover blogging in particular which I will admit is a bit of a grey area&#8230;</p>
<p>Blogs as written works will always receive critiques which are in fact judgments. When you look at literature there is always a critique that follows. Blogs are indeed subject to this judgment and simply have to accept it.</p>
<p>The comment boxes when you think about it allow for both, feedback AND judgments. I believe that when we publish a post we are (on some level) looking for feedback on the process which we have worked through to develop the post. As a written/published work, it is also subject to judgment.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not kid ourselves &#8211; we all judge. I think it comes down to the response that we leave in the comment boxes on blogs &#8211; are we in fact expressing our judgment, or are we providing feedback as it relates to the desired result of the post?</p>
<p>Again, with blogs, the desired result of the post may not always be known, yet is also subject to judgment which, also, adds another level of complexity to the whole thing..</p>
<p>Posting a comment is up to the reader, and as authors of blogs, we just have to accept the fact that we will receive both.</p>
<p>I simply take the view that if someone is moved to submit a judgment about a post, the blog, or me, I have the right to challenge that judgment with process. ie. Have you looked at the process and result to provide feedback to better the process/result, or have you made a judgment on something early and closed the door? <img src='http://tully.ca/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I hear what you are saying &#8211; I&#8217;m just not sure if I&#8217;m making sense&#8230; Great feedback tho!</p>
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		<title>By: Brad K.</title>
		<link>http://tully.ca/blog/2007/08/10/you-want-feedback-not-constructive-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-377</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 02:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tully.ca/blog/?p=225#comment-377</guid>
		<description>&quot;People’s feelings get hurt when judged, but not when provided with feedback&quot;

I hear what you are saying, but I am not sure there is as much difference as you state, between judgment and feedback.  In order to consider responding with feedback, there is implied judgment that the author deserves the respect of an answer, and that the topic either meets or disagrees with the reader&#039;s world view.  Possibly an additional judgment whether the reader wants to draw the author&#039;s attention (partly met in the &#039;respect&#039; judgment), and whether the message caused enough impact on the reader to warrant a response.

I don&#039;t see how any feedback can fail to reflect a number of judgments of the article, the author, and the reader&#039;s relationship to the author.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;People’s feelings get hurt when judged, but not when provided with feedback&#8221;</p>
<p>I hear what you are saying, but I am not sure there is as much difference as you state, between judgment and feedback.  In order to consider responding with feedback, there is implied judgment that the author deserves the respect of an answer, and that the topic either meets or disagrees with the reader&#8217;s world view.  Possibly an additional judgment whether the reader wants to draw the author&#8217;s attention (partly met in the &#8216;respect&#8217; judgment), and whether the message caused enough impact on the reader to warrant a response.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see how any feedback can fail to reflect a number of judgments of the article, the author, and the reader&#8217;s relationship to the author.</p>
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